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Rain Phoenix: Hello and welcome to launch Left podcast. I'm your host, Rain Phoenix. We are down at Licorice Pizza in Studio City, California where you can do all

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your favorite record shopping. So come down sometime. And today's very special guest is Alec from Clap your Hands say yeah. And he'll be launching

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Knife Play. Don't forget, rate and subscribe. Follow us on all socials onchleft. Welcome to the show. Well, welcome Alec to launch Love podcast. It's

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really nice to have you.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

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Rain Phoenix: You my friend, are from Philadelphia Penns. That right?

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: That's true.

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Rain Phoenix: And so is your band Clap your Hand say yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: More or less.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: And you were like one of those early aughts bands, you know, blog era, indie music, sort of MySpace band. Like this is like this is before that whole

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shift happened. I mean the industry as we knew it. I remember cause I made my first EP in 2001 like the day after everything died when Napster took

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over. And I was like, wow, great timing. And from then on I just watched all the changes happen. Because before that it was like yeah, CDs and

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cassettes and you know, real like support for artists and development deals and all of that went away really quickly.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, it seemed like it's a weird time.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah. And you innovate in that space though.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I mean, I don't know if it was so innovative as like we just happened to be there. I definitely have more of an old school mentality. But regarding

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like independence, it just seemed the right thing to do. I mean I was 27 and 26. 27. And I had a real stubborn streak. I was a real purist in regards

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to music. So I just really didn't care to play and any games that might be involved in like you know, promotional vehicles surrounding music. So for

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me independence made total sense. So it just happened to align with my convictions, that's all. You know.

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Rain Phoenix: Were you a fan of Fugazi and Shirakai and that sort of those sensibilities of don't sell out and keep everything.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Cheap And I really was, but not that far probably. You know, I remember when those guys came through Philadelphia and keeping the ticket prices to a

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certain point was just pretty fascinating to me. I was on their side, but I was not as far.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah, yeah. So what when you say, you know, keeping your principles during that time, was it, was it really based, do you think solely in sort of an

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aspiration to do things differently than what you were seeing in the prevalent culture or was there a bit of self sabotage involved.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, there was self sabotage. I mean, it was a very vague premonition that like the music industry was meant to be this way for musicians. It was,

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it had everything to do. And my music generally has everything to do with like being that 10 year old kid with headphones on listening to Lou Reed or

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something like that. Maybe not 10, 15. And that was how I shaped the entire thing. But really it's a completely naive perspective, but still, it's

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what I went with. And yeah, there was a bit of self sabotage as a result. Maybe even more than the heroes that I thought, you know, kept it real.

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Rain Phoenix: Right. But you know, this is so many years later. You're putting out a sort of 20, you're reissuing. Clap your hands, say yeah, after 20 years.

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That's incredible. Congratulations.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Thank you. Yeah, it's pretty weird.

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Rain Phoenix: And what a cool record to sort of reissue and let the kids know about today.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, I agree. And we've been playing it and I still stand behind these songs that could have been, could have been rough, could have gotten popular

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with stuff that I didn't really care that much about, you know. And yeah, these, we. We've been going over everything and it really, you know, it

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takes me back as it should, as it might some of the audience and maybe, yeah, maybe we'll attract some new audience members, who knows? But you know,

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I don't count on anything.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah. And I guess there was that one like ridiculous stellar hit which was something like Skin of my Yellow.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Skin of My Yellow catchy teeth.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah, yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: All stellar in a very like indie way, you know. Yeah, not like huge huge, but you know, big enough.

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Rain Phoenix: And you, and you having done it a little differently, you didn't sign to a label, you didn't, you didn't even end up having to really share

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publishing. Right.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, that's true.

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Rain Phoenix: So that's great. Like, even though it may not have been like you said, you know, it wasn't triple platinum per se, but. But maybe it was double, I

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don't know. Tell me, how far did we get it? That song was everywhere. It was ubiquitous.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: It still seems to be.

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Rain Phoenix: I mean, are you still spending some of that money or is it all.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I mean, for better or worse, it's. It's still kind of everywhere. And yeah, I mean, like I, I mean as far as money, the money stuff is concerned, it

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really is like I live a pretty relatively frugal lifestyle and it's kind of all related to, to this stuff, you know, to trying to make, make

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something work. To the best of my ability. And that's it. You know, like a lot of my friends, but they haven't been as lucky as me in terms of

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keeping things independent.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah, so. Yeah. And so what really was your impetus? You know, you spoke about having principles and, and wanting to do it differently and that there

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self sabotage. But yeah, what was the intuition or it was in that gut feeling of like, I'm going to not sign, I'm gonna keep this and do this myself

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and just see what happens. Do you remember that moment or kind of.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I mean. So the way it started was the first two years before the album was released, we were playing these, you know, all of those small clubs that

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everybody plays, you know, and nobody was there. And little by. We had. We had a bit of self confidence. We were like, pretty assured going into all

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of this that we had something that people might want. And so we were able to kind of keep going, keep going, and then, you know, little by little,

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like everybody else, like somebody that is not a friend of ours appears at the show and blah, blah, blah. So we were able to gain, I think, a

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relatively reasonable following in New York prior to even release of the album. So when it came time to release the album, we were like. And also we

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didn't really care to do it for a living. This. That was a big advantage. We weren't like chasing a dream of like playing at Madison Square Garden or

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anything. Right. You know, for me, my dream was like Max's Kansas City, that sort of thing. Like those old.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah, that was it.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I was like, oh, cool, that's enough. You know. But so being independent or staying to. That just seemed to. To work because I was kind of happy with.

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With any attention as. As I feel like any sort of entertainer should be.

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Rain Phoenix: You know, you just wanted people to listen to your songs and come out and rock out to them.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: And again, I thought of myself as the little kid listening to headphones first. You know what I mean? So that's who I'm communicating with anyway.

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Does it need to be a lot of them? I mean, it's better financially if it is, but that's not the point artistically. It's not the point you know,

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generally.

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Rain Phoenix: So I know at Maxis Kansas City, Devo played a show that Bowie and Brian Eno were at. And that's when like, they decided to. Yeah, to produce their

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next record. So big things can happen at Max's Kansas City, apparently.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Are we not Max?

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Rain Phoenix: All our heroes seem to have these like, crazy stories of, you know, accidental Blessed trajectory, you know, super power, rocket ship takeoff stuff.

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And I think, you know, at a certain point, a lot did truly change in the industry to make that almost nearly impossible comparatively like it. It

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seems to take a hell of a lot more work to get to the place where like, you can just get your head above water or even have 500 devoted fans that

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make a label come out and watch you. Otherwise they just watch, won't come see your band. You know what I mean? And so all of that has changed. The

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solidarity, like between behind the scenes and in front. I think it's just gotten smaller maybe. Cause it's still there. You know, my friends who are

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in big bands and all their representatives and label, they're all. It's a tightly oiled, you know, machine. Together they're helping each other make

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this person seen basically and heard and all of that. So I find that really encouraging. It's still there, but it seems to be diminished. Do you. Did

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you feel like in the early aughts, looking around at the landscape that, you know, because of that there was kind of all bets are off. And that

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contributed too, to the way that you went about it or the way that you saw other peoples rise or not rise because of that.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I mean, it was like. I think we were fairly detached from all of that. I mean, I definitely felt like I didn't. It's not that I didn't feel like I

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had friends who were musicians who were also getting recognition, but I didn't feel like there was any sense of, like, I'm looking at them to see

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what I should do ever. And this is, you know, this is kind of my fault. I didn't really study. I didn't study success. I mean, my early interviews

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were related to the first album and people said, what does it feel like to be successful? And I'm. I think I. It didn't even. I just. I made a record

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that I. I was 60% happy with. I thought, you know, I thought it was a good album, but I thought I could do better. So that's where my head was. So in

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other words, like, I. I didn't think of it as much as everybody else. And so it's hard for me to get behind something 100% if I'm not like 100% with

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my own material.

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Rain Phoenix: Have you ever been 100% with your own material?

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: That's the thing. Yeah, that. That's where the naivete came in. Because I was like. I think after like the third or fourth album, I was like, I think

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you can only get to a certain percentage. You can never.

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Rain Phoenix: I think any real artist that I've ever spoken to is, like, kind of never happy.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Right.

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Rain Phoenix: Even, like our heroes, the geniuses probably had notes later that they were like, wish I'd turned that cowbell down or something.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, absolutely.

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Rain Phoenix: So I don't know that. That. That. That's. That crazy that you were not necessarily.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Happy, but it informed the way I thought about other things in the industry. My innocence.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and. And I think at the end of the day, 1. 1. I heard a quote, a friend of mine once said something like, the audience is

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the. Is the artist. Which I think is really a powerful statement, because in some ways, like, the audience spoke for you like that it was more than

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60%. Like, it really resonated with a large amount of people. And so whoever was interviewing you at the time was reflecting that back to you, but

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you were thinking in that singular artistic way of just, like, I could have done better. And I know that, like, I think that's a good thing in some

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ways for artists to stay. That sort of thing of, no, I can. Next time we're gonna. You know, just to kind of have that. Unless it debilitates you.

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And I'm not. That's what I'm wondering is.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Well, that's the thing, I think. I don't think I was fantastic in the head at the time, like, with. With any attention. I just. I never really took

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to. To getting attention, just generally. So for me, getting on stage, I would even tell the band that it doesn't matter what they think. If we play

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a good show, we'll know it at the end, and if it's not a good show, we'll know. It was, like, pretty. Pretty hard line about it, but now I've

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softened a little bit. And I came after so many shows where it's like, you know, it's not the most difficult thing in the world to execute a lot of

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the material at this point. And it's not like you're like Polini up there trying to do some Mozart piano concerto or anything like this. It's like

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you're. You're trying to communicate something that. That these people all truly believe in, you know? And I think I started to recognize that when I

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saw more Flaming Lips shows, and I was just like, oh, yeah, right. It's all. It's just like a. Like a Kumbaya moment a little bit more than anything

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else, which is cool, you know?

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah. That energetic transfer.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah. Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: Like, you kind of can't play a show without the audience, and the audience can't enjoy a show without you. And it's this symbiotic relationship

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that's so important, and you only reach that perfect moment where everyone goes, I'm high from this once every, probably 250 shows.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Exactly.

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Rain Phoenix: But that's what keeps artists going is like, I did try that drug, and it's so good when we all connect, you know?

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah. People ask me what I.

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Rain Phoenix: So you chase it.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: People ask me about this as a career, and I'm like, well, you know, it's like a lot of other careers. It's like 90, 95% difficulty, and it's. It's.

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It's boring and it's frustrating, all this other stuff, but there's like that 5%. I might have the percentages wrong, but there's like that 5% magic

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that you don't necessarily get in other careers. And it's. You keep holding on and coming back for that.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: And it really is, you know, something when, you know, you're communicating directly to people.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: So.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah, it's so, so powerful and meaningful. Yeah. It totally makes you chase it because.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: You'Re a musician, so.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: It makes you chase it forever.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Absolute.

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Rain Phoenix: And the longer you're in, if you had that feeling at 17 or 18, the longer you're in, you're still like, I'm still. Look, I'm gonna get it. You know,

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it's like. Yeah, exactly. So speaking of, just. We were talking about music, and I find music video to be an artistic component of a good song and

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how it connects to an audience. And I think, you know, MTV was still a little bit more of something in 2000, in the early aughts. It wasn't like it

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was in the 90s and 80s. That was legendary. I remember it well, and I'm old enough to know it all, and I loved it. MTV was like the one TV thing I

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watched.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: But you never made any music videos.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: No, not early on.

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Rain Phoenix: Wow.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, that had a lot. Yeah. We definitely were asked to, and I. I don't know, I had. Again, it was the sort of like, stubborn naivete of being like,

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oh, you know, I think the odd again. And picturing the kid with the headphones, it was like, they should be able to create the visuals in their head.

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But I was talking to my friend yesterday who's a music video director, because we're going to do something 20 years after the fact.

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Rain Phoenix: Great.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: And he's an amazing director. And we were talking about the Nature of collaboration. And I was like, oh, my God, that's it. It's like you're

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collaborating with somebody who's. Whose artistic vision you appreciate.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: If somebody had explained it to me that way, I would have been like, oh, yeah, right, right. Everybody's like, yeah, like this, you know, doing a

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thing.

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Rain Phoenix: You needed, like your own personal spin doctor on. On.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Oh, God, yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: Like, to. To tell things to you in a way that you could have been like, oh, I see the value in that. At the time, it. That was just like you repelled

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it because of the way it was presented, which I understand that. I think a lot of artists struggle with that even now, but certainly with social

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media and TikTok, like, just immediate repelling, you know that. And I get that, and I feel that way too. It seems so antithetical in a way to indie

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rock music or indie sensibilities to get on and, like, try to sell yourself. And everyone assumes that's what you have to do if you get on TikTok.

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And. And I'm not, you know, the verdict's still out. I'm trying to remain open. I haven't figured it out, but I'm trying to remain open as opposed to

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just repelled. But I think that's a very normal response. If you'd had someone there who kind of could spin it for you in a way that was artistic,

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you would have probably said, yes, absolutely.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Because there are a lot of videos now and then that are interesting. There are a lot of collaborations that actually would have made a lot of sense.

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So that's. Yeah, that's kind of my fault. But you're right, I didn't have the. I didn't have that. That source to tell me, oh, yeah, there's. There's

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value to this. I mean, and you can do it your way.

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Rain Phoenix: Right.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: You know, which might not be what everybody else does. That was part of the problem. I was looking at some stuff and I was like, why? You know, some

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of the. Some of the videos, you know, this cutesy stuff that people wanted us to be a part of.

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Rain Phoenix: And I. Oh, yeah, yeah. Some of the treatments were, like, making you gag a little bit. Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I mean, there's like an element. It's probably. Name. Partly the name and also the atmosphere in which indie rock was considered at that time. It was

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like, yeah, a little fluffier than I was. And. And I think all the suggestions kind of like, entertain that fluff, which was not. Not my style.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: But, you know, there are different ways to go, and I'VE seen it since. And for example, this guy who I mentioned to you earlier, Cameron Winter, has

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a new solo album and he does a music video, which is great. And what's incredible about it is he's singing the song live, like a song from the album.

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He's not lip syncing his song, he's doing it live. And it's just a camera on his face and it just goes back. He's just in front of. I think that's

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like the Brooklyn band shell or something. And it just goes back and then it just stays back. That's the entire video. And I was like that. I mean,

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my favorite video at that time was David Bowie's Heroes, where he's just kind of like standing there on stage. I liked that. Kind of nothing.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah, no, I like that. So, yeah, anyway, anything is possible. I mean, that's.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, but the point is that he can, you know, he did it because he believed in it. It wasn't like people throwing stuff at him saying, oh, this is

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what you should do, because this is what your music. This is the avenue where we can market it.

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Rain Phoenix: I see. It almost sounds to me like you were in like a protective mode around so much coming at you that the easiest way to protect it was to just say

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no to almost everything.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Pretty much, yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: Okay, I get that. I see what you mean. It was almost like overnight success, independent success, and then all the vultures came out going like,

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here's how we can make you so much more. But it's cheesy.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: That's the thing, is some of them were great and happy, the right intentions, but I just couldn't distinguish, you know.

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Rain Phoenix: I see. Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: You know what I mean? Like, not everybody's bad who, you know, wants to do something or like just comes out of the woodwork.

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Rain Phoenix: No, not at all.

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TJ-From Knife Play: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: So I didn't realize that at the time. It was just like too. It was too much and it was too hard to discriminate who was selling something worth

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buying.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: Wow. That totally makes sense. Well, how cool. Because. Well, I don't know how you feel about whether or not things, you know, regret versus things

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happen the way they're meant to. But to me, I think for whatever reason that that was the way that you made it happen. I think it actually affords a

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really beautiful pocket for the 20th anniversary to re release the self titled record and have that moment where you can, with discernment and a

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little more age and less like trauma response.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: Do things artistic for the. For this beautiful record that really did touch so many people. You still have that opportunity now and you didn't do all

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this thing. So it's also not like some grab money grab version. It's literally just like, oh, the things that I didn't have maybe the bandwidth or

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the wherewithal at the time to look at. I'm gonna do now with a little.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: More trying to push it forward to people who might believe in it the way I do, and I did. And it's a really. You're right. If you look at it that

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way, it's like a tremendous opportunity that you can just like, not only get new people on board, but yeah, you can just try to communicate this

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feeling honestly. Playing these songs with the band now, rehearsing and like revisiting all of the stuff from. Probably I wrote a lot of these in my

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early 20s, I guess, but revisiting all of those like former and present convictions and knowing what informed it then and, you know, I've changed it

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now, but like, it's. It's just. Yeah, kind of an amazing opportunity really, to do all this. So, yeah, I'm excited.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: And if people come on board, cool. As I've always thought, like, you know, if we can convince people to. To sign up for this, then so be it. But if

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not, it's not the end of the world.

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Rain Phoenix: You know, that's a great place to be. I mean, that's. You know, that kind of desperate for external validation is really debilitating and harmful to

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artists. Creative force.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I think so too.

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Rain Phoenix: So that's wonderful that you don't have that.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, part of it. Yeah. And my hero probably is. Sorry, you're pointing at this time. I don't know if it's time to do this.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah, of course it is.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: But I just took a songwriting course with him via Zoom with the school of song in Los Angeles, and it was incredible. And there are a lot of things

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that he said which reminded me of how I meant to approach all of this. You know, one of the. One of my favorite things was like, pay attention to

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what attracts your attention. I'm paraphrasing, but like, that's something that I think is important that everybody knows, you know, like, rather

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than this all the time, like, you know, look around because that can inform what you write and. And how you approach other people. And. And I. I sort

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of needed a lot of his advice in this course at this particular time. You know, not only approaching this album and like, reminding me of where I was

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at the time, but also like approaching future Works which if, you know, as you go on, it kind of gets a little harder to dig in, or so it seems. And

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yeah, I mean, I think it's really important to, to have a resource like this. But he was saying he's somebody who. As big a name as he is for me, I.

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He was telling these stories about the people he's worked with and everybody is just like kind of the same, you know, it's all. We're all working

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towards this particular end. Like an album that we can believe in essentially, or art that we can believe in. And it doesn't matter who it is, but

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how we get there is the point. I mean, he didn't say this. That's kind of what I'm saying. And, and he just. He has all of these ideas and theories

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and philosophies to make it work, but all of them are kind of grounded in conviction and he's super playful and I don't know, he's really cool still.

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Rain Phoenix: We're talking about Brian Eno and this particular record is called Here Come the Warm Jets. Is it? One of my favorite Eno records as well. And Alec

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went and picked us out of Licorice pizza. This was a special order for Alec. So we like to always ask artists coming on what would be their special

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order. And this, my friends, is that. So thank you to licorice pizza for, for stocking this beautiful record for. For all of us to enjoy this one in

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particular.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Was.

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Rain Phoenix: Was it formative for you as a teen?

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I was working at the Museum of Natural History in New York and I remember taking the subway from Brooklyn up to the

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anthropology department there and. And I think it was exactly the length. I would listen to it almost every day.

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Rain Phoenix: Wow.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: And so it, you know, begins in, in Bushwick, I think it was. Bushwick.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: And. And I would get right up there and through all the exhibits, you know, before the museum opens and with my headphones on, probably blasting it.

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But like, this was, was the record for me for a long time.

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Rain Phoenix: Just give it one more time. I covered that song once. Is that the actual self titled Here Come the Warm Jets? Right?

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: No.

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Rain Phoenix: Oh, Needle in the Camel's Eye.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: That's the one.

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Rain Phoenix: I love that one.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: Well, speaking of your music though, I mean, I feel like we could talk for hours, but I know we have a launched artist coming soon, but I wanted to

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let you know I listened to you. I think it was like a piano and voice EP or singles, so beautiful. Lyrics were really great.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Oh, thanks.

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Rain Phoenix: And I noticed that. About your songwriting, I was pleasantly surprised. I'm a lyric person. I really meant Matters to Me lyrics.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Me, too.

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Rain Phoenix: And I liked some of your. You could tell who your heroes were, because sometimes you'd use, like, some song titles of theirs as part of your lyric.

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And I was like, oh, cool. Interesting. Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Most people don't.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah. I thought it was really cool. I noticed that in a few of your songs, I was like, oh, yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Cool.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: That's great.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah. I really.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: There was a reason why I put those in there.

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Rain Phoenix: There you go.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: And apparently I found it.

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Rain Phoenix: One of those little Easter eggs or.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Whatever they call it.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, exactly.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: The one I'm most proud of is the End of New Fragility. There is a. There's a bridge. And I put in. So Neil Young has a song on Tonight's the Night,

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and it's called Borrowed Tune. And it's. I'm singing this borrowed tune I took from the Rolling Stones. Alone in this empty room Too wasted to write

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my own is the line. And I. I put in a line from his. I think it's that song. And as I'm climbing this ladder My head in the clouds I hope that it

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matters. I'm having my doubts on the bridge of a particular song where I think he lifts from the Rolling Stones. Anyway.

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Rain Phoenix: I love that. Okay.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: It's like fractal lyrics.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah. It's real. Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: Multiple artists, nerd stuff. I like it. I like it. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. I'm a big fan of lyrics and also poetic lyrics where it's kind of, you

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know. You know, what it means. Maybe a few people can make it. Ideally, lyrics are interpreted in a way that everybody can find their story in it. I

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usually don't like to tell people even what the lyrics mean to me or why I wrote the song, because it's really way more interesting to hear why they

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think, what they think about it.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Beyond that, what your personal interpretation is. That, to me, is my favorite.

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Rain Phoenix: Exactly.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I don't even necessarily want to know everything. I mean, I'm thinking about Bob Dylan or Eno in particular. We went over lyrics a lot in that

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course. And I think he was more in the vein of, like. He even said in the first lecture, he was like, I don't want to hear about you. I want to hear

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about things, you know, around you. And he said that in such a way. I knew what he meant, Like. But the thing is, like, you can't. You could write

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about, like, these cameras or something like this and just about the cameras, but you betray your own sensibilities by doing that. It doesn't matter.

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You know, you're going to show yourself, you know, matter what. Again, I don't think he actually said that in the course, but yeah, that's.

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Rain Phoenix: What you got from it.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: Well, and again, we all bring our perception to every situation. It is only what we interpret, Right? Yeah, that's happening.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: You know, so. But if it. If it's meaningful, if it's digestible, if it's transformative, if it makes you have wonder in your life, if it makes you

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wonder and have wonder and care and concern for others, then, like, I can't see any of that being a bad thing.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: If it turns you into an asshole, well, don't call me. I don't want to hang out. But otherwise. I love watching how things get interpreted by people

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and they build other beautiful things from them, even if that wasn't the intention of the person who shared it or, you know, what we take from things

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is everything, right? We build our own reality. So hopefully all of us on a trajectory to build a reality that's better for all of us in some

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capacity or brings more joy into the world. Builds on artistic legacy that we look to, like, we add to that.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: That kind of good it sort of comes down to. I mean, I think. I think it was Kurt Vonnegut talking about. Talking to his son about. He was. He's a

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doctor and he was asking his son innocently what he thinks the point of all of this is. And essentially, and he. This son said to help people get

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through this, you know, whatever it is. And that's kind of, in a way, the idea for me, it's like whatever kind of like puts you, makes you go forward

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and in your own journey. If other people can help you along the way, that's the key. And that's, to me, the artistic goal. Which is why if you don't

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have conviction and you're doing it not for the right reasons, you're doing it for attention and things like that. I think you're kind of missing the

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point, personally. I mean, whatever, attention's fine for some people, but to me, that's not the point at all. Yeah, it doesn't help people get

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forward.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah, that's beautiful. Wow, that's awesome. No, on that note, we'll. We're going to start to try and bring knife play in, but we can keep talking

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while we see if it actually happens. This is where knife play will. Will appear when, when. If they're in the waiting room, so. Cool. So Knife Play

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will be supporting you on tour?

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, they'll be supporting on the second leg and I'm pretty excited. They're from Philadelphia and I listen to their stuff and it's. It's pretty

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cool, you know, and they're younger and I really like.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: That. That it's like in good hands.

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Rain Phoenix: Totally. It's like bringing. Also. Yeah. Shining light on the next generation.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, it's. I mean, I'm a real snob, so if I can find stuff that's like, you know, good, that's going to come up behind. There's a lot of good stuff.

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It just doesn't always get attention.

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Rain Phoenix: No, exactly.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Hey, what's up?

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Rain Phoenix: We're gonna see.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I don't know which way we're looking.

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TJ-From Knife Play: Thank you for having me.

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Rain Phoenix: Oh, yeah, you're there.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Do we look?

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Rain Phoenix: We can look this way. Probably this way, actually. Probably there. Yeah.

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TJ-From Knife Play: Because.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Are we facing you? Yeah, of course.

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Rain Phoenix: Hi. You must be from Knife Play.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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TJ-From Knife Play: And now I can see myself, but it's reversed. That's interesting. And it's delayed as well.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Well, that was all intentional.

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Rain Phoenix: Tj.

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TJ-From Knife Play: Yeah. I do night play with some other folk, but I'm usually the ambassador, so.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Okay, cool.

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Rain Phoenix: Nice to meet you, tj. Thanks for being on Launch Left. We were just.

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TJ-From Knife Play: Thank you for having me.

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Rain Phoenix: Absolutely. And Alec was just sharing about how he digs your music and that you all will be touring together soon, I think. Right?

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah. Was it May when we started? Somewhere early May.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: Well, that is soon.

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TJ-From Knife Play: Yeah, it's. It's the first 10 or so days of May.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, exactly.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah. Not.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Not a full on, you know, world tour or anything like that, but it's. I'm super excited about it.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: That's wonderful. And are you.

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TJ-From Knife Play: Sorry, go ahead.

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Rain Phoenix: No, no, no, please.

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TJ-From Knife Play: I was just going to say we'll be wishing for more by the end of it, I bet.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, it's going to be a fun one for sure. And we're ending in Philly then. These guys are from Philadelphia.

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Rain Phoenix: Right on.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Where are you now? Which part of Philly?

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TJ-From Knife Play: I'm in Kensington right now.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Okay.

353
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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: All right.

354
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:22.072
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Kensington's nice.

355
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Rain Phoenix: That's cool. You're bringing Philly bands with you. I love it. That's so cool. So how did you first come to music?

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TJ-From Knife Play: Hmm. Like in my light also, is there.

357
00:33:38.266 --> 00:33:51.410
Rain Phoenix: A lamp there that we can make you turn on? We want to see. There we go. That's better. A little bit more of your face. There you go. Yeah. So, yeah.

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How music found you.

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TJ-From Knife Play: Yeah, I was thinking about that a little bit and I'm really curious as to where that question took you to as well.

360
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Rain Phoenix: But we didn't even answer it.

361
00:34:06.340 --> 00:34:09.920
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: We're waiting for you to answer, and then I'm gonna just copy your answer.

362
00:34:10.500 --> 00:34:28.389
TJ-From Knife Play: Yeah, well, hey, I would too, you know. No, I feel like the, the music that struck me first, even though it was, you know, I. I think I started like

363
00:34:28.509 --> 00:34:38.209
saying I like this or that band around in like second grade or so I remember. And of course it was kind of juvenile music I was interested in, but

364
00:34:39.869 --> 00:34:56.380
it, it's. It's this catharsis thing with music that was so important to me right away. And that's still like what I draw from the most. It's like

365
00:34:58.040 --> 00:35:13.136
just this therapeutic thing, this understanding between, you know, what you're listening to and what you are or. And then when. And then turning

366
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around and putting something back out into the world and. And kind of striking that same nerve for someone else, you know, it's. I mean, I like all

367
00:35:25.194 --> 00:35:39.650
type. Types of music with all different, you know, purposes, but, you know, the stuff that kind of made me create is that, you know, emotional stuff,

368
00:35:39.730 --> 00:35:49.242
the real stuff, you know, that's kind of just on the darker side of things, I guess, you know?

369
00:35:49.426 --> 00:35:49.930
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

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Rain Phoenix: Do you have any examples of bands that you would qualify as falling in that category for you?

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TJ-From Knife Play: So the first, like I said, like I was a kid, you know, when I first started liking music, but I always say, like, the first three bands I liked were

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00:36:07.890 --> 00:36:12.120
Linkin Park, Good Charlotte and Everclear.

373
00:36:12.200 --> 00:36:13.100
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Oh, wow.

374
00:36:14.240 --> 00:36:27.672
TJ-From Knife Play: And I remember asking my dad in the car, I was like, do. Do singers sing about their real lives or do they just make everything up? And of course he

375
00:36:27.696 --> 00:36:38.130
told me the answer to that question. And I don't know, it was like a weird moment because I guess I was somewhere inside I was thinking like I was

376
00:36:38.170 --> 00:36:51.170
interested in this type of thing, you know, writing songs, so. And I mean, now of course, I listen to just about everything. I mean, I don't know.

377
00:36:51.290 --> 00:36:51.922
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

378
00:36:52.066 --> 00:36:57.950
Rain Phoenix: Did you know about clap your hands say yeah before they asked you to support the tour.

379
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TJ-From Knife Play: So I definitely heard the name, but I did have to familiarize myself more. Yeah, I was 10 years old when that album came out.

380
00:37:10.676 --> 00:37:21.404
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, I was only 15 when we did. It's joking. We're both really young and new to the game.

381
00:37:21.492 --> 00:37:25.360
Rain Phoenix: Exactly. Sorry, we're having an ageist moment.

382
00:37:26.420 --> 00:37:28.428
TJ-From Knife Play: Oh, no, it's okay.

383
00:37:28.604 --> 00:37:36.988
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: So that wasn't hot with the 10 year olds. What's that I said it wasn't hot with the 10 year olds. I mean, you know, that was our target demographic.

384
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TJ-From Knife Play: Well, it might have been with them, but I was just from a nowhere town and I didn't know about anything cool. So until way later, I mean. Well, I

385
00:37:47.876 --> 00:37:51.820
knew about some cool stuff when I was 10, but it was completely different.

386
00:37:51.940 --> 00:37:52.640
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

387
00:37:53.220 --> 00:38:12.322
TJ-From Knife Play: But I did familiarize myself with that record and, you know, it's great. And I think, you know, our music does not sound similar, but I. I think

388
00:38:12.346 --> 00:38:15.282
we're gonna. We're gonna give people a really great evening.

389
00:38:15.346 --> 00:38:15.666
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

390
00:38:15.698 --> 00:38:16.674
TJ-From Knife Play: When we play together.

391
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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, I agree.

392
00:38:17.482 --> 00:38:21.010
TJ-From Knife Play: I think it's gonna be very good for audiences.

393
00:38:21.090 --> 00:38:32.690
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, it's a good balance. That's. That's the key to any, any show. I mean, I've played enough where the opener really doesn't sound at all like us.

394
00:38:33.710 --> 00:38:42.998
And they've been some of the better shows that I've. Better tours that I've had. It's just balancing the night and, you know, both sides are open,

395
00:38:43.054 --> 00:38:44.374
then there it is.

396
00:38:44.462 --> 00:38:44.854
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: So.

397
00:38:44.942 --> 00:38:55.250
Rain Phoenix: Yeah, I think it's really interesting. I put a lot of shows together and I enjoy putting the weirdest, just eclectic combos because, yeah, it's like

398
00:38:55.290 --> 00:38:58.402
more interesting than just. They're gonna sound the same throughout the night.

399
00:38:58.506 --> 00:39:01.362
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I do have examples of it not working as well, but.

400
00:39:01.466 --> 00:39:04.802
Rain Phoenix: Well, you have to be somewhat judicious about it.

401
00:39:04.906 --> 00:39:07.250
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I had a show with T.I. once. Do you know who that is?

402
00:39:07.290 --> 00:39:07.938
Rain Phoenix: T.I.

403
00:39:08.034 --> 00:39:08.786
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Exactly.

404
00:39:08.898 --> 00:39:10.786
Rain Phoenix: Wait a second. Like, T.I.

405
00:39:10.898 --> 00:39:12.962
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I didn't know hip hop.

406
00:39:12.986 --> 00:39:14.242
Rain Phoenix: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

407
00:39:14.306 --> 00:39:21.346
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: That didn't work out very well. Not to, no offense to him or anything like this. It had nothing to do with him, but it wasn't a good mismatch.

408
00:39:21.378 --> 00:39:24.430
Rain Phoenix: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There, there. There are. There are certain things.

409
00:39:24.470 --> 00:39:25.198
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: It happens.

410
00:39:25.294 --> 00:39:25.758
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

411
00:39:25.854 --> 00:39:27.918
Rain Phoenix: You want to be thoughtful, I can tell.

412
00:39:27.974 --> 00:39:32.446
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I can tell you more, but I don't want to anyway. Yeah.

413
00:39:32.558 --> 00:39:43.214
Rain Phoenix: So knife play. You have. And I saw you had this new single out or two song drop. Right. Pretty recently or like in the end of last year, which I just

414
00:39:43.302 --> 00:39:54.028
saved or added in Apple music, as you say, because I hear that's really good to do for artists. Add, save play, all those things. Are you like,

415
00:39:54.084 --> 00:40:02.796
really in the social media world as a band because you're young and that's just what you're supposed to do these days. Or you guys. How's that. How's

416
00:40:02.828 --> 00:40:07.920
that been for you all? Is that part of your promo?

417
00:40:09.300 --> 00:40:34.008
TJ-From Knife Play: I do Instagram only. I really am not into all that stuff. You know, our song things and they don't. I, I feel like I, I, I, I'm not good at that

418
00:40:34.064 --> 00:40:48.270
stuff, first of all. And I try to build my whole thing on just authenticity. So I can't do, like, I just post when I need to, you know, And I think

419
00:40:48.310 --> 00:41:03.210
that I'm decent at doing that. But as far as just feeding this thing, I can't do that. And that's okay, you know?

420
00:41:05.030 --> 00:41:05.598
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

421
00:41:05.694 --> 00:41:18.896
TJ-From Knife Play: But I just feel like what our music and the way we communicate with people through the Internet or whatever, like it is kind of at odds with what's

422
00:41:18.928 --> 00:41:27.504
expected in those realms today, like with the dopamine dependency and all that.

423
00:41:27.592 --> 00:41:28.220
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Right.

424
00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:46.058
TJ-From Knife Play: And also it's like it's at odds with a lot of my values and a lot of the things I'm interested in talking about in my songs. So I like, you know, I,

425
00:41:46.114 --> 00:41:58.906
I, of course more people know about us because of Instagram. That's pretty cool. But I just do my best to be authentic. And I feel like having a band

426
00:41:58.938 --> 00:42:10.760
and writing songs and albums is enough. And to be, to be an Internet star, it's a whole nother job, you know, I have a regular job also, so it's like

427
00:42:11.780 --> 00:42:19.436
I just do what I feel like I need to do in that realm just to get the information out.

428
00:42:19.588 --> 00:42:28.720
Rain Phoenix: That's refreshing. I've actually heard of some younger people today who are kind of banning. They're, they don't, they're gone the Luddite route.

429
00:42:29.620 --> 00:42:38.898
They don't do any social media. And they read books like Dostoevsky. And they're like obsessed with going back and wanting to be more like

430
00:42:39.034 --> 00:42:43.874
revolutionaries for now in terms of social media, which is really refreshing.

431
00:42:44.002 --> 00:42:48.786
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: It's funny to hear that. It's like a movement, you know, it's like our childhood is like a movement.

432
00:42:48.898 --> 00:43:00.142
Rain Phoenix: I know, right? We just didn't have anything. And if anything, but one thing I am curious about just cause I am. I mean, are you addicted to Instagram

433
00:43:00.206 --> 00:43:11.966
anyway? Even though you don't post, do you scroll? Do you look for titties? Do you like, Are you like everyone else who's like, of course on social

434
00:43:12.038 --> 00:43:20.446
media doing what they want to do, but they're like, not, you know, it's scary to put yourself out there, but are you daily opening it and doing that?

435
00:43:20.518 --> 00:43:24.904
Because that's my problem and my addiction, especially titties.

436
00:43:24.952 --> 00:43:36.152
TJ-From Knife Play: I mean, I check it, I check it a few times a day, but I only have it on my computer. And you know, I don't, I don't, I've been there you know, I

437
00:43:36.176 --> 00:43:46.280
don't want to seem like I'm, like, above all this stuff, but fortunately, right now I feel like I. I feel pretty good about my relationship with that

438
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:46.632
stuff.

439
00:43:46.696 --> 00:43:47.544
Rain Phoenix: That means awesome.

440
00:43:47.592 --> 00:43:48.184
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: That's good.

441
00:43:48.272 --> 00:43:59.060
TJ-From Knife Play: But. But it comes and goes. And, like, I don't want to seem. I mean, I'm 29, so I did have, like, a life before social media on some level, you know?

442
00:44:01.600 --> 00:44:12.616
Yeah. I mean, like, I'm doing good with it right now, and I feel like it might be on its way out on some level because it just seems to stimulate me

443
00:44:12.688 --> 00:44:18.808
less, and it seems to be less and less exciting, but that's just kind of my sense of.

444
00:44:18.864 --> 00:44:23.096
Rain Phoenix: Yeah, that's awesome, though. Yeah, I'm trying.

445
00:44:23.248 --> 00:44:23.768
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

446
00:44:23.864 --> 00:44:32.552
Rain Phoenix: I like. And you have to do it for work. You just end up being on it all the time, and it's just. I hate it. It's actually not a relationship of

447
00:44:32.576 --> 00:44:35.528
excitement, but it is having to be on it.

448
00:44:35.584 --> 00:44:42.936
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: So then I have a very complicated. We have a. Somebody who helps with social media, and they're always asking for things, but I have no idea. I'm

449
00:44:42.968 --> 00:44:52.698
like, is this interesting to other people? And, like, I don't get it, really. It's a guitar or whatever, you know, it's like, how is that something

450
00:44:52.754 --> 00:45:01.850
that people want to see? And the way I tell it to other people, it's like, yeah. I don't know if you had this happen, but when I was a kid, it was

451
00:45:01.890 --> 00:45:09.402
almost. It felt like a punishment. You'd have to go to your neighbor's house and they'd have like, a slideshow of, like, the family vacation, and

452
00:45:09.426 --> 00:45:13.136
you're like, all right, you know, like, here we are. And, you know.

453
00:45:13.258 --> 00:45:13.920
Rain Phoenix: Right.

454
00:45:14.220 --> 00:45:21.172
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Venezuela or whatever. And you're just like, okay, cool. And now it's just like. It's. This is what everybody does. And they're like, oh, wow, look

455
00:45:21.196 --> 00:45:22.964
at that. You're on vacation.

456
00:45:23.092 --> 00:45:23.588
Rain Phoenix: Yeah.

457
00:45:23.684 --> 00:45:24.292
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: All right.

458
00:45:24.396 --> 00:45:25.140
Rain Phoenix: Yeah. Yeah.

459
00:45:25.220 --> 00:45:26.420
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: That's interesting now.

460
00:45:26.540 --> 00:45:27.060
Rain Phoenix: Yeah.

461
00:45:27.140 --> 00:45:28.356
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Just because it's on your phone.

462
00:45:28.388 --> 00:45:37.732
Rain Phoenix: I don't know why. Yeah, it's pretty curated. The people don't just put up their. Really, like, they try to make it look like it's like, this is just

463
00:45:37.756 --> 00:45:48.122
what I'm doing. But they've spent, like, all this time lighting and, like, editing and getting a lot of that. World feels so fake. And you can tell

464
00:45:48.146 --> 00:45:57.978
it is. So. It is nice to have authentic artists on there just being themselves. That I do appreciate when you come across them. And there are some

465
00:45:58.114 --> 00:46:09.662
that have really made very few, but that have made the Leap from a social media musician or influencer to actually putting out good music, but very

466
00:46:09.686 --> 00:46:17.662
few, I'd probably say the margins are like, you know, I don't know them but 1%, but they're still out there. That's my guess, anyway. Don't listen to

467
00:46:17.686 --> 00:46:21.262
me. I always have theories and I think I'm an expert. I'm not. I do no research, so.

468
00:46:21.286 --> 00:46:23.038
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Just gonna be confident, though.

469
00:46:23.174 --> 00:46:27.050
Rain Phoenix: Yeah, yeah, you're just confident. People start to believe you.

470
00:46:27.430 --> 00:46:31.230
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Exactly. Say it. I mean, confidence.

471
00:46:31.310 --> 00:46:42.064
TJ-From Knife Play: Something you just said. Something you just said reminded me like, you know, I've kind of heard this idea and also thought about it. I don't know if

472
00:46:42.072 --> 00:46:51.792
this is my idea or not. I might have got it somewhere or it might just be something that we're all going to see soon. I'm not sure. But when you said

473
00:46:51.816 --> 00:47:03.280
about social media stars making good music or not and so forth, you know, we played with people who have massive followings on Instagram and

474
00:47:03.320 --> 00:47:15.930
streaming and we open for them and the audience leaves after we play. This has happened a couple times. And so what I'm thinking is that, you know,

475
00:47:15.970 --> 00:47:27.850
we're see, we're gonna see that the music industry has put so much money into these people that aren't actually going to give them the return that

476
00:47:27.890 --> 00:47:37.400
they need, you know, and I think there's going to be like a fallout from that coming soon. And then. And then you might see a band like Knife play,

477
00:47:37.860 --> 00:47:48.012
you know, getting the. The funding that they're getting, you know, or maybe I don't know what's going on. Yeah, it's just an idea, you know.

478
00:47:48.116 --> 00:47:49.116
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, that'd be great.

479
00:47:49.188 --> 00:47:51.372
Rain Phoenix: In a perfect world with that. We like that.

480
00:47:51.476 --> 00:47:53.340
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I mean, I. I love anything.

481
00:47:53.420 --> 00:47:59.130
Rain Phoenix: Exactly. I was gonna say. Well, that made me feel bad, though, after I said we like that because I don't want anyone to lose out on anything. But.

482
00:47:59.180 --> 00:48:06.494
But I've heard that too, that there's a lot of people that they've sunk a lot of money into because they were big on TikTok and then they don't know

483
00:48:06.502 --> 00:48:14.334
how to play on a live stage in front of an audience. Like, all they know how to do is kind of be in their bedroom and that's cool, but they totally

484
00:48:14.382 --> 00:48:27.356
panic on stage or aren't what they seem. So, yeah, there's always that chance that hopefully the idea is that real, authentic music and songwriters

485
00:48:27.388 --> 00:48:33.196
and people who have a passion to make art are able to be heard. That's, like always my aspiration and wish.

486
00:48:33.308 --> 00:48:34.076
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah.

487
00:48:34.268 --> 00:48:40.396
Rain Phoenix: Find a way for them to be heard and have more audience, find them somehow. So I don't know.

488
00:48:40.468 --> 00:48:53.340
Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: I think good, authentic bands will find their audience and have to be okay with playing. Like, maybe mid size is the pinnacle. You know what I mean?

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Maybe. And the idea is not to, like, blow it up, blow it up. But you find your audience. You can communicate, use these as vehicles for

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communication, social media. But if. If what you're saying is true and authenticity is starting to creep in, that's. That to me, is the best, best

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part of it. You can have a viable career. You're not. Your goal is not to, you know, explode, explode, but just to, like, keep it there, you know,

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keep it viable. That, to me, is the best. Because there can be so many people who are successful at the same time, in my opinion. I think.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah, exactly. Well, and also, anytime, you know, what goes up must come down. And anything that kind of blows up also will go out of fashion.

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Anything that becomes. You know what I mean? So it's nice if you can sustain yourself just on writing and producing and having a snuff of a robust

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audience to. To have to do what you want and be able to not work a day job. That's like the dream.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, exactly.

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Rain Phoenix: And if every artist that was really passionate and great at what they do could have that, that would make me so happy.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, me too.

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Rain Phoenix: Yeah. It's so nice to speak with you, tj. Thanks for being on the show. And also you, Alec. It's been so much fun to shoot the breeze, as they say.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, absolutely.

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Rain Phoenix: And I'm sure we'll just put all your information in the. In the YouTube and on our. And our podcast so you don't have to rattle off where we can find

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you. We'll take care of that. But yeah, thanks you guys for being on the show.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, thank you, thank you. Thanks for having us.

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TJ-From Knife Play: Thank you.

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Rain Phoenix: Have a great rest of your day.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, thanks for doing this, tj.

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TJ-From Knife Play: All right, see you soon.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Yeah, see you soon.

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Rain Phoenix: Bye.

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TJ-From Knife Play: Bye.

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Rain Phoenix: Clap your hands, say yeah. 20 years.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Oof. Yeah, that's good.

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Rain Phoenix: That's a great way to end it.

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Alec Ounsworth-From CLAP YOUR HANDS SAY YEAH: Oof.

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Rain Phoenix: And cut.

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Rain Phoenix: Launch Left aims to create an intentional space that highlights and empowers all artists for whom radical creativity is not a choice, but a

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necessity. Launch Left begins with music, but its ultimate aim is to launch left of center artists in all creative fields.