LaunchLeft EP160 | DIANE WARREN launches Mergui Rain Phoenix: [00:00:00] Hi, welcome to launch left podcast. I'm your host rain Phoenix. We are down at licorice pizza in studio city, California, where you can do all your favorite record shopping. So come down sometime. Today's very special guests are Diane Warren launching. Margie, don't forget. Rate and subscribe. Follow us on all socials at launch. Left. Do I Diane Warren: have to watch my language? Nope. Oh, good. Please curse. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Come on. I could be me. I couldn't last time. Yeah. Nothing I did. They said no shits and fucks. What about a content? Or two. Well, none of that either. All right. Rain Phoenix: I think this is a great way to start the podcast. Yeah. Let's just Diane Warren: get it out. Let's get all the shits, fucks, and cunts right out there. Rain Phoenix: It's so nice to finally meet you in this kind of setting, too, where we can talk about music and art and how transformative it is. Yeah. [00:01:00] And the choices, um, that you made to be an artist like you are today. One of the things I did by doing a, a cursory deep dive last night is realize that songs that you wrote throughout my childhood were my guilty pleasure pop songs. No, they were my guilty. I was like, she wrote that one and that one and that one, like I was singing them all. I broke. down singing the Celine Dion one because I read something about that you wrote that for your dad. Yeah, that was my way of thinking. Immediately made me cry, just think of it. And I was literally at home on my computer like singing to the beat of the rhythm of the night. I love that song as a kid. It's my 40 year Diane Warren: anniversary. Rain Phoenix: Oh my God. And I Diane Warren: wrote it when I was, and I'm only 39. I wrote it before I was born. Oh wow. A very special talent. Rain Phoenix: Anyway, I was like, wow, major, major, major influence on my, uh, love of pop music, which is not common for me. I'm mostly, I'm more into indie and experimental and, uh, instrumental. Oh wow. I'm happy to represent for pop. [00:02:00] So for pop reasons, I was like, wow, really? Like Diane's songs. Nice. I love it. I love it. And um, I guess one of the burning questions I have is how did you kind of discover that was what was you really want to do? That was what you I just Diane Warren: wanted to do what sounds like about eight or nine when I saw you know, when they had these things called records. Well, we're at Licorice Pizza, so this was a record. They actually sold singles and things called albums, kids, um, and there were, back in the day there were, when you could actually see the credits of people without having to go a deep dive on the, on the internet to find out who wrote it, um, you could actually see in the parentheses the names of the songwriters and I, and I would look all the time and I wanted to be there. And that's, it's weird because that was before I even knew I could do it. So I just, so maybe I was psychic or psychotic or, or both. I don't know. I just. Rain Phoenix: Manifest. Diane Warren: Yeah, manifested. I believe in that too. Yeah. You know, you manifest it. You, you know, but it's hard work and you know, you, you could have talent and if you don't [00:03:00] do the work, it doesn't mean anything and you could do the work if you don't have talent. It doesn't mean anything. So. Rain Phoenix: Yeah, I mean you seem to have persevered against, I'm sure there were plenty of odds, I mean you grew up during the 70s, 80s, 90s coming of age, I mean that was a, a strange time for women. I grew up right Diane Warren: here. I grew up in the valley. Yeah, Rain Phoenix: I saw that, I love it. And so like, not a great time for women in music, especially women with like, you know, Power, the power of writing a song. I imagine it wasn't that Diane Warren: common. I don't know. I never got the memo that I couldn't do something because I'm a woman. So it just never occurred to me. Yeah. To be honest. So, and there were women's songs. I mean, Carole King. I know. That's one of my favorites. Well, I remember seeing Carole King, Gotham King on a little record, you know, in the writing credits. Right. It was up on the roof. And that's, I remember looking at that. And so I, my, my You know, reference and influence with Carole King goes back to the Brill Building. More than even tapestry, to be honest. Rain Phoenix: Wow. Diane Warren: You know. Rain Phoenix: Yeah, so, and you had a supportive family? Diane Warren: Not well. [00:04:00] My dad. My dad was supportive and, you know, would take me to, you know, publishers. A little arrogant little asshole, 15 year old, um, and, um, my mom, you know, my mom didn't get it. My mom, you know, was like, how are you gonna make a living? You know, you're gonna be sitting on the corner with, you know, a guitar and a cup, you know, and honestly, like, you know, what are the chances? I'm from Van Nuys. My dad sold insurance, so it wasn't. You know, I know the reality is I'm one in a million to make it this successfully on my own. I mean, yeah, you know, and so I don't, I never lose sight of that. So whenever I see somebody like on the street playing, I'm like, that could have been me, you know, but you, you, you work hard. You know, you work at your talent and, and then you get a little luck in there somehow. Rain Phoenix: Yeah, I mean, I'm having this visual of your dad driving you around as a teenager going to just, what, he didn't know which publishers were what, right? No, but I would, I'd Diane Warren: look everything up. I was like, you know, I had a, I made him get me a subscription to billboard and I was like 14. I [00:05:00] would look to see who everybody was and yeah, I just, you know, I was kind of a little arrogant, a little hustler, you know, I kind of still am. I'm not really, I'm not arrogant, but I believe in what I You know, Rain Phoenix: it does. I think it takes that kind of confidence to get Diane Warren: somewhere to like, you know, you have to fake it to your own believer because nobody else is doing it. Rain Phoenix: Yeah, Diane Warren: you know? Rain Phoenix: Yeah, for sure. Um, do you remember the exact album that, that woke your mind up to music or a song that you heard as a child? The Diane Warren: Beatles. I remember the Beatles on Ed Sullivan. I remember literally going down the street to Thrifty Drugstore and making my mom buy me Meet the Beatles. And that was the first album I ever bought. And um, yeah, that's where, I mean, I remember being very aware of music though, when I was even before that, but that was the first galvanizing moment. And then I got, then a few years ago, I got so lucky. I got, I did a song for Ringo Starr [00:06:00] called Here's to the Nights. I said, let's get your old friends and some new friends to sing on it and all I kept thinking in my mind, how fucking cool if Paul McCartney jumped on it and he did. He was the first person Ringo went to. So I have like, I have Paul McCartney, I have the two living Beatles singing my song. You know, there's some other great guests, there's Sheryl Crow, Chris Stapleton. Um, Lenny Kravitz, bunch of cool people on there, but all, the only thing I saw was I have two Beatles on my song. Rain Phoenix: Oh my gosh. That's so wonderful. That's a cool full Diane Warren: circle. Rain Phoenix: You have a plethora of incredible artists who have sung your songs. Yeah. Still do. Do you have close relationships with them or was it, is it kind of like a distance with the songwriter and the artist? I mean, I Diane Warren: don't have super close relationships with a lot of artists, you know, I mean, some I'm in the studio with and, you know, they, I give them a song and some people are my friends. Right. So. They probably don't want to Rain Phoenix: hang out with me. Diane Warren: Oh, right. Rain Phoenix: Do you mostly hang out with music? Is that your best friend, would you say? Diane Warren: Yeah, it is definitely my best friend. [00:07:00] When I leave here, I'm getting right back to work. Really? I love that. Yeah, I didn't get much of a chance to get much work done today. I'm kind of a workaholic with this, so. Rain Phoenix: I love that. That's so wild. We were just, I was having a conversation before this with some of the people here. And, um, we were talking about the difference between the artists who have this sort of multi platform way of doing things where they can't help it. bounce around versus the ones who are very specifically passionate about one thing. Yeah. And I, Diane Warren: I know both kinds. I know I'm useless at literally everything else. So it's not, it's not like I have a choice, you know, I mean, I do, I'm good at one thing and I do it. And I do it a lot. So, Rain Phoenix: well, it's such an honor to get to speak to you and spend a little bit of time with you. One of the things to meet you Diane Warren: in, Rain Phoenix: in, Diane Warren: in person, we're both animal people. Exactly. I was just going to say, Rain Phoenix: one of the things that I also really admire is your animal advocacy and the work you do for animals. It's, it's just [00:08:00] incredible. You have to come Diane Warren: visit my, my rescue ranch. Oh Rain Phoenix: my God. I'd love to, Diane Warren: you know, and thank God it was okay in the fires because it's in Malibu, but Rain Phoenix: yeah. I, I, I don't know if you want to talk about it, but this all just happened very recently, these fires, and I think you lost. Yeah, I had a Diane Warren: beautiful beach house that, you know, sadly, ugh. Yeah. Yeah. Could have been worse. It could have been the ranch, but sad, you know, sad a lot of people going through this, you know, right now. Oh my gosh, yeah. Rain Phoenix: I know. Well, that's wonderful. So you didn't have to evacuate the animals or anything. No, Diane Warren: they were ready too, though. But, you know, they didn't have to, so, yeah. Do you spend a lot of time at the ranch? No. No. I don't go, I know, I go there on Sundays sometimes, you know. I'm always kind of working and, you know. But I, I, I like to go out there. I haven't been there for, you know, the roads were closed and I still haven't seen my, what was left of my beach house. Wow. Not much. Ugh. Rain Phoenix: How would you say you sustain a career? It's one thing to like, become successful, have a, you know, huge hit or two or three, as opposed [00:09:00] to like, this is your 16th Oscar nomination. Isn't that crazy? Diane Warren: Bananas. I know, I know, it's number, it's like my eighth in a row, it's number 16, The Journey from the 6888. I'm, I don't know, I'm, I'm really, I think this is maybe one of my best songs I ever wrote. I know I say that, but I really mean it with, I mean, I've never said that before. No, but I, but I, but it is, it's a really great song, and I'm excited, and the Oscars are three weeks from Sunday, even though they're not going to be performing the songs on there. Go figure. Wait, I heard about that. I mean, go figure. Rain Phoenix: I don't know. That's a strange, new The thing they chose to do is remove the Oscar nominated songs from being performed Diane Warren: live. That's kind of the highlight of the show, but okay, I'm not in control here, but, you know, kind of does a disservice to the audience, not to mention the nominees, but, but I'm grateful to be, you know. Nominated and play part of theirs again for the 16th time for the 16th time sweet 16. Yeah, there you go You know, let us I've been 16 for a while and I think I don't know if I've ever been sweet[00:10:00] Rain Phoenix: Well, that's so cool so how do you think that How would you say then, as you're cresting your 16th nomination, that sustainability piece about, is it Diane Warren: hard Rain Phoenix: work? Diane Warren: No, I work really hard. It's staying current. It's just always, you know, refining your craft. And I feel like I learn something with every song I write. So, I just love doing it. Yeah. Rain Phoenix: Any advice for young Diane Warren: songwriters? Work hard. You know, that's, that's what did it for me, work hard, you know, and have some thick skin because you're going to need it, you know. Rain Phoenix: And um, I know I saw something said that you're not, you're not like much of a collaborator in terms of songwriting. Yeah, it's so Diane Warren: weird that it's weird that I write songs by myself. It's weird that it's weird, but it is weird right now because we live in a time when it's like writing by committee and I'm, I'm not good at committees. I'm a committee of one. Right. So that's what I do. Rain Phoenix: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:11:00] That's cool. I mean, I think knowing what you do and being confident with that. That's not to say Diane Warren: I wouldn't write with somebody. I mean, I have co written with people, just my best songs are definitely the ones I write. I was thinking of that song, Even when I dream of you. Oh, you can sing, Rainn. Rain Phoenix: Yeah, I'm a singer. Shit. I'm a singer. I write songs to, probably not, not not pop songs, but it's Diane Warren: all right. You don't have to write pop songs. Rain Phoenix: Write the songs you love. You can find me out there. You can look at, I gotta check you out. Okay. But I was thinking that was the nineties and I was probably 20. Wow. And 90. I remember that being So and Emmic that song, and I knew, you know Liv at the time who was Steven's daughter. Oh yeah, yeah. And was in that film. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that brought back all these memories. Wow. It was really funny. Diane Warren: I think that's what. Because I know they didn't ever do anybody else's, like an outside song or anything. So I think the fact that Liv was in that movie, I think that's probably why Steven Tyler ended up doing that song. Rain Phoenix: Yeah. Yeah. That was great though. His Diane Warren: singing. Oh my God. That's a classic record. An all [00:12:00] time classic. Oh my God. His vocal. Yeah. I was like, I was saying like, like, um, sitting with, with which I meant the journey sitting with her, with Gabby, you know, it was kind of almost the same experience. I was sat at a piano teaching the song to. to Stephen and hearing him sing it next to me. The same thing with the journey with, with Gabby, you know, and what nomination was that? Like number five? Wait, hold on. It was 98? That might have been my fifth nom wait, hold on, wait, nothing's gonna stop us now because you loved me. How do I live? No, that was my fourth nomination. Wow. And I'm on 16. That was 12 nominations ago. Rain Phoenix: Oh my gosh. Isn't that weird? It's so wild. It's so weird. So wild. I am Diane Warren: the biggest loser in, in the Oscars right now. I know that title. You have an honorary Oscar, I hear. I have the honorary, but that's, that, and it's great because it's, that's the hardest one to get. You know, they've never given it to a songwriter. Wow. I still want to win. Rain Phoenix: Yeah. Well, this is the year. Diane Warren: Come on. Rain Phoenix: Come on. Roll the dice. I'm trying. Let's go. Um, I think that. We [00:13:00] now could potentially bring your wonderful friend, and I think you wrote a song for him. Diane Warren: I did. A couple of songs. Mergi to this Rain Phoenix: podcast and have a conversation with him. See? And I love it when you do. That's, this is how it should be. I feel like, can I just be a fly on the wall and let you, Diane Warren, chat with Mergey? I want to be a fly on the wall when she writes songs. Yeah, let's just chat. You guys just talk about your song, Criminal. Yeah, it's exciting. I'm sure you're giving him great advice on just music in general, so. Well, Diane Warren: my advice would just be Keep doing my songs. No, well, I'm kind of joking, but Mergui: I'll take that advice and I Diane Warren: can kind of not Rain Phoenix: Welcome to the show murray. Thank you Mergui: so much. So good to be here. Thank you for having me Rain Phoenix: Yeah, of course you guys wrote criminal together. Is that right? I Diane Warren: wrote criminal. She wrote criminal Mergui: Produced it. Yeah recorded it sang Diane Warren: the shit out of it produce the shit out of it You produced it too, is that what you said? Yeah, along with Mergui: some friends [00:14:00] and great artists and producers and writers. But it's just, uh, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's very hard to mess it up. It's, it's written so well. No, it's Diane Warren: easy, it's easy. I've had my songs messed up before. Fucked up in the production or the wrong melodies. But you know what? When I heard it, I was like, fuck, this is so great. You know, I still feel that way. I think it's a hit record. We have to do everything we can to, to get it there. Mergui: Yeah, yeah. Diane Warren: That's so cool. Rain Phoenix: How did you Diane Warren: guys meet? Mergui: We first met at that, I think it's some events, right? Yeah. Diane Warren: Was it the one they had the, the seat, the piece that, Mergui: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. CCFP. Yeah. So I met you there. Yeah. Yeah. And then also, I think I saw you at like Ciccone's once. Diane Warren: Is that what it was? Yeah. Whatever. I remember the one time. Few Mergui: events. Few situations. We kind of get around. But, uh, I was really hoping to get in the studio with you. And, um, and when, when it happened, it was like just magic. I remember, uh, you played me a few songs and, and every time I was like, you know, it's very [00:15:00] hard for me cause I'm such a, like perfectionist in what I do. And I'm like, I'm an overthinker. And I'm like, I need everything to be something that I really, really feel. And it was very unique and surprising to me that she just played me the songs and I, and I felt them. immediately. It was like something that I, I didn't expect to, to feel. That's nice. That's nice. So yeah, I was like, yeah, that's it. Okay. Please let me have it. Um, yeah. Diane Warren: Yeah. I was, um, yeah, I have this sense sometimes of, of knowing what's right sometimes for an artist. You know, um, like, well, Gwen Stefani was calling me the song whisperer because I worked with her because I found the right song and, but just, you kind of get, like, sitting with you, I kind of felt like, like, I know what you kind of need. And, um. That's right. Yeah. And Criminal was the first one. Then there's another really beautiful song too, The Wine and the Moon, which I love. So good. Um, [00:16:00] but right now we have Criminal out and, you know, I just, it sounds like just a hit record to me. It just, it's one of those kind of timeless, it's up tempo, it's kind of this dance, but it's almost like retro, but it's not retro. It's kind of now, but you know what I mean? There's lots of, a lot of things in it. Mergui: How do you write? Songs in such different, like, vibes and genres Diane Warren: because I like to, I, I get bored if I stay in one genre. I know Mergui: how I do stuff, but I mean, it's very interesting Diane Warren: to me. I just, I just like to be in different, cause you know, I do stuff after like I was in with, you know, with Anjali Kidjo doing it and then I did a song with Tim, so I'm in the Afrobeat stuff and then dance stuff. And then, you know, I just did something with Lady A recently, and so I'm in different worlds. And then with you, like, you're just cool pop, just an awesome artist. And I, I don't know, you know, great, I love great singers. You know, that's what sometimes it has in common. You know, they're, they're really great artists in different [00:17:00] genres and it gets, gets me excited to work with them. I just like writing songs in different genres and I get bored writing and I do love writing the big ballads, but I like, I love writing other stuff too. Do you Rain Phoenix: listen to music? Diane Warren: But I listen, I can't listen like other people because I'm too analytical. I'm going, well what do they do in a chord? And I just can't relax. Right. You know? So, but if I'm working with, I, I'm, I'm, I stay in touch. I stay, you know, current with what's going on. Especially as I'm working with a lot of those artists. So. You know, I check out whatever, what people are doing, but I don't chase trends, Rain Phoenix: right? Diane Warren: Yeah, I know. This is a fine line. Yeah. Yeah. You have to be current that you, you know, but a great song is great song And is this it's all how you it's all how you that's how I feel a Mergui: lot about about like the songs that you write Yeah, that's how I feel about criminal. Yeah, for example, um, it's just it's just written beautifully and that's why I say like it doesn't really matter how we would produce it because it's just You could sing it on piano. It would be beautiful, you know? Diane Warren: Yeah. But when you produce, when you take the right [00:18:00] song and produce it the right way and you sing it great, then it's pretty untouchable, you know, it's on, you know, is that the word on, on untouchable? Yeah. Or on, on. Be, you know, it's, you can't fuck with it. In other words, unfuckable. Unfuckable, how about that? It's Unfuckable. We should write a song Mergui: called Unfuckable, unfuck it up. Diane Warren: Unfuckable . Rain Phoenix: You'd have to keep putting the dang asterisk. It's very much social media. Me, try to name your song Un, um, Diane Warren: be, Rain Phoenix: which is, you know, labor intensive. But, um, so. You wrote that song criminal in your own little workspace alone. Yeah, and just felt like murky needs to hear this Yeah, I think I've written Diane Warren: for right before I met you like a few weeks. It was pretty new, you know both Both the songs were and I, I thought, Oh, this would be so cool, you know, cause look how cute he is, [00:19:00] you know, like who doesn't want to hear him sing and looking at him, you know, yeah. So that doesn't make me blush. Youth, youth is Rain Phoenix: wasted on you, but you seem to be a hard worker. So do people still pin up Diane Warren: people like posters on the walls and stuff? Like we didn't know the kids. Rain Phoenix: I had a wham poster on my wall. Diane Warren: Wow. I just said Rain Phoenix: that out loud. I'm. Wow, I love, Diane Warren: I love George Michael. Are you love George Michael so much. What a great talent. I Rain Phoenix: also liked Andrew Ridgely. Oh yeah, he was the cute one, wasn't he? I thought they both were cute. Diane Warren: Well, they were both cute, but Andrew Ridgely was kind of cuter. Rain Phoenix: Yeah. I grew up in the, I was like coming up to the 80s. You're an 80s Diane Warren: kid. It's alright. Rain Phoenix: So, pretty great big hair, it kind of goes with my, my look. Oh God, I don't Diane Warren: want to even look. Someone just sent me a picture of what I looked like in the 80s and it wasn't pretty. Neither was I, I was extra frizzy. Rain Phoenix: Puberty was great. Remember the Diane Warren: shags? You didn't know that. Yeah, Rain Phoenix: we'll cut all this out. You weren't born yet. Why am I here for this? I don't want to know anything about that. I did hear that there was a song that you did on your last [00:20:00] album that had some kind of Elton John, Pieces or inspiration and that, um, you had to ask his permission and what was the outcome to that? Mergui: Um, yeah, it was, it was something that we, uh, so first of all, I got in the studio and you know, we had this idea of like taking yellow brick road by Elton John and like taking the melody of like, uh, and interpolating it exactly. Um, but I didn't know if I can use it or not. Diane Warren: Did he let you? Mergui: So, so, so yeah, I just had the demo and we sent it to him and I was like, what are the odds, you know, uh, but he replied back and he said, what a great voice. What an amazing song. Wow. Diane Warren: How cool Rain Phoenix: is that? Mergui: He just approved. Rain Phoenix: Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. That must have felt amazing. Mergui: Yeah. I mean, You know, it's like working, it's like working in some way or another with your legends is the same way that happened to me with her. Diane Warren: Yeah. I, uh, Mergui: you know, I'm Diane Warren: not one of those, but, but thanks. No. I Mergui: mean, you're being humble for me. It's [00:21:00] like, I was, I always been a fan and I, uh, it's just, uh, it just great to actually make something happen. Yeah. Together. Thank you. Yeah. I'm Rain Phoenix: excited too. Well. Yeah. Can you share with us how people can find you on the internet and across different platforms? Everywhere, uh, Spotify, Mergui: uh, Instagram, TikTok, whatever, any, anything, it's Mergi, uh, you can see how it's written. It's written a little weird. Rain Phoenix: Yeah. Is it M E R G U I? Ui, Mergui: exactly. Yeah. M E R Rain Phoenix: G U I Mergi. Mergui: Yeah, it's spelled a little, but it's, uh, it's my name. It's my last name actually. Diane Warren: What's your first name? Mergui: Jonathan. Diane Warren: Jonathan Murgi. Okay. Wow. I like Murgi's, it sounds cool. Yeah. It's Mergui: my last name. Yeah. Everybody called me Murgi ever since I remember. So like, school and stuff. Rain Phoenix: Nice. So what's next for you? Mergui: It's a lot of, uh, new songs with Diane Warren. Diane Warren: I like that. I like that. Come on. Bring it Mergui: on. Are you going to tour Diane Warren: or anything? Are you going to? Yeah, Mergui: [00:22:00] yeah. I just came back from a tour with, you know, Forrest Black? Diane Warren: Oh yeah, I know Forrest Black. Yeah. Mergui: So he's a friend now, but we, uh, he invited me to. Support him on tour and I just came back from that. It was so crazy. Amazing. And such a meaningful experience, you know, and I played criminal every show there Diane Warren: and what's the response? Mergui: People loved it. I didn't know what I did. You know what I didn't didn't came out yet. And so I told them like, I'm going to play you a new song, you just tell me if I should release it or not. I know I'm going to release it. Diane Warren: I hope they didn't say no. Mergui: But everybody came up to the show and said, you have to release this song. It's so good. Diane Warren: That's so cool. And Mergui: that's why I say, that's why I say it doesn't matter how they produce it. Cause I just sang it on piano over there with my friend and people just loved it. We had like a drum loop. Diane Warren: We should do like an unplugged version. Yeah, we should. I should Mergui: play you the show's version. Diane Warren: I'd love to hear that. Yeah. Get it out there too. Yeah. Because it's cool to, someone to hear it two ways like that. Mergui: Yeah. Yeah. Rain Phoenix: [00:23:00] Cool. Cool. Well, thank you both for being on the show. so much. What an interesting conversation. so much. I appreciate it. My pleasure. And I hope that, I wish you both luck as you continue to. Yeah. Collaborate in a sense, or Diane, right? so much. I'm down if you're down. I'm down Diane Warren: if you're down. We're both down. We're all fucking down. Rain Phoenix: Bye! Launch Left aims to create an intentional space that highlights and empowers all artists for whom radical creativity is not a choice, but a necessity. Launch Left begins with music, but its ultimate aim is to launch left of center artists in all creative fields.